Monday, July 11, 2005

Ufology's Bottom 10

As Mac Tonnies has pointed out in a comment at "Ufology's Top 10," if there is a "Top 10" of the best / most influential (for good) people in the history of ufology, there must be a "Bottom 10" of the worst / most influential (for bad) people in the history of ufology.

Yin vs. Yang. Matter vs. Anti-matter. Luke vs. Darth.

Absolutely!

Each of the people listed below has had, in varying ways and to varying degrees, a detrimental impact on the serious study of the UFO phenomenon, whether in the eyes of science, the media, the general public, or ufology itself. In each case, ufology would have been better off if these people had chosen some other career path to follow, or another group of suckers to fleece.

Interested observers will note that one man made both the Top 10 and Bottom 10 Lists. To anyone who finds this confounding, I can only say that Richard Nixon managed to open relations with China and cover-up the Watergate break-in. Not everything - or everyone - is simple to figure out.

With that said, and without further ado, here are the Bottom 10 of Ufology - and some dishonourable mentions (a list that could have been much, much longer).

Let the debate begin...

Paul Kimball



1. Dr. Edward U. Condon – Condon was a distinguished scientist, a pioneer in quantum mechanics, the director of the National Bureau of Standards, the president of the American Physical Society, and a professor of physics at the University of Colorado. It is in this latter post where his claim to ufological infamy rests. The Condon Report, which was the result of a two-year “scientific” study of the UFO phenomenon commissioned by the United States Air Force (known formally as The University of Colorado UFO Project), was released in 1968. Condon was the director. Virtually from the beginning, critics (including some of the committee’s members) charged that Condon and coordinator Robert Low were biased. When the report came out, in concluded that there were prosaic explanations for all UFO cases, and that there was no evidence to support the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis. The Air Force, the American media (in general), and the scientific community (again, in general), accepted the report as the definitive word on the subject. Project Blue Book was terminated shortly after its release. Prominent critics such as Dr. Peter Sturrock, Dr. James E. McDonald, Stanton Friedman, and Dr. J. Allen Hynek, have all correctly noted that the report’s conclusions – which were authored by Condon himself – were sharply at variance with the evidence (Condon did not investigate any of the cases himself), which showed that 30% of the cases studied were classed as “unknowns,” higher even than earlier Air Force studies. As Sturrock wrote, “This report has clouded all attempts at legitimate UFO research since its release.” Little has changed in the almost four decades since the Report was released, as governments, the media, and many in the scientific community still cite it as proof that UFOs are not worth serious study. While it might seem unfair to include a real scientist like Condon on the same list as a fake one, like Bob Lazar (see #5), the Condon Report represents everything that science should not be, and irrevocably tarnished the reputation, for those aware of the facts, of a man who might otherwise have been viewed as one of the great American scientists of the 20th century. The damage it did to the serious study of the UFO phenomenon was incalculable.

2. Frank Scully, Silas M. Newton & Leo A. Gebauer (aka “Dr. Gee”) – If crashed flying saucer stories still have a bad reputation (and they do), it is because of these three guys. Newton, the con-man who cooked up the “Aztec Incident” back in 1949 – 1950, Gebauer, his partner who masqueraded as ace scientist “Dr. Gee,” and Scully, the gullible show-biz reporter who fell for the scam hook, line and sinker, and then wrote a book (Behind the Flying Saucers) based on Newton and Gebauer’s claims, are the best examples available of what kind of damage can be done to ufology when greed and dishonesty on the part of hucksters is mixed in equal parts with naiveté and the will to believe on the part of the listener (aka the “mark”). The sad part is that Newton and Gebauer are still sucking in a few well-meaning people to this day, decades after their deaths - people who continue to try and prove the “Aztec Incident” was a real flying saucer crash, despite all of the evidence to the contrary. Ca plus ca change, ca plus ca meme chose.

3. “Professor” George Adamski – Adamski was one of the first people to publicly claim to have seen and photographed alien spacecraft, been contacted by aliens (he was one of the best known “contactees” in the 1950s), and to have even gone on flights with them! He wrote several books relating to his claims which caused quite a stir – both positive and negative – at the time, including the best-selling Flying Saucers Have Landed (1953), which was co-written with Desmond Leslie. All of this, however, was based on a little-known science-fiction book that he wrote in 1949, Pioneers of Space: A Trip to the Moon, Mars and Venus. Adamski enjoyed quite a bit of fame in the 1950s – he travelled the world on lecture tours (he even had an audience with the Queen of the Netherlands), attracted a fairly wide following, and published other books. Not everyone bought his act, however. Time Magazine called him “a crackpot from California,” which hit the nail on the head. His popularity began to wane when he publicly attacked the first moon photos as fakes and then, in 1962, announced that he was to be transported to Saturn for a conference of space travelers. His report of that “trip” was so bizarre that even his most ardent admirers began to have their doubts. By the time of his death in 1965, Adamski’s had become the subject of derision. While here are still some people today who believe that he was telling the truth (just as there are still some people who believe the Holocaust didn’t happen, or that there were no moon landings), it was during the 1950s, when Adamski’s influence was at its peak, that he did the most damage to ufology, undermining the efforts of groups like NICAP and APRO to gain recognition and acceptance for the serious study of the UFO phenomenon with his outlandish, undocumented claims to be a “contactee.” By the way – he wasn’t really a “Professor.”

4. Dr. Steven Greer – Has anyone done more harm to the cause of the serious investigation of the UFO phenomenon over the past decade than Dr. Steven Greer? Ask yourself these questions (I’ve whittled it down to four – I could have included many more): (1) How seriously is anyone who matters going to take a man who charges people good, hard-earned money to wander about a field late at night, flashlights pointed to the sky, because that’s how you contact the aliens? Odd he has never taken a single photo or video of these sightings. (2) How seriously is anyone who matters going to take a man who once claimed that U.S. military forces attacked a Colorado ET base inside a mountain using nerve gas? (3) How seriously is anyone who matters going to take a man who constantly claims he briefed the CIA Director, when in fact this was merely a dinner party where UFOs came up in polite conversation? (4) How seriously is anyone who matters going to take a man who held a press conference in Washington to promote disclosure, and ruined it by including a ton of bogus “witnesses” along with the credible ones, thereby tainting the good guys, and totally undermining any prospect of Congressional hearings for, oh, about the next twenty years? The answer to all of the above is: “Not seriously at all.” Unfortunately, that hasn’t stopped people within ufology, notably those associated with Exopolitics, a wacky off-shoot of Greer’s “work,” from promoting him as a “serious ufologist.” With “friends” like Greer, who needs debunkers?

5. Bob Lazar – Stan Friedman said it best, so I’ll just quote directly from him (see his website http://www.stantonfriedman.com/ for the full article): “Incredible claims have been made about Bob Lazar for years. He supposedly is a physicist with an MS in Physics from MIT and an MS in Electronics from the California Institute of Technology. He was a "Scientist" for Los Alamos National Laboratory, and obtained a job back-engineering UFOs at a very secret site at Area 51 in Nevada through Dr. Edward Teller. Supposedly he figured out how saucers work using Element 115 -- matter/anti-matter, etc. He was able to steal a small quantity of 115 from the 500 pounds available, but this was stolen back. He came forward with his story despite death threats because he thought the public has a right to know. Videotapes are available with his claims. It is all BUNK. Not one shred of evidence has been put forth to support this story: No diplomas, no resumes, no transcripts, no memberships in professional organizations, no papers, no pages from MIT or Caltech yearbooks. He also mentioned, in a conversation with me, California State University at Northridge and Pierce Junior College -- also in the San Fernando Valley, California. I checked all four schools. Pierce said he had taken electronics courses in the late 1970s. The other three schools never heard of him…He was publicly asked when he got his MS from MIT. He said "Let me see now, I think it was probably 1982." Nobody getting an MS from MIT would not know the year immediately. He was asked to name some of his profs, He said: "Let's see now, Bill Duxler will remember me from Caltech." I located Duxler. He's a Pierce physics prof, and never taught at Caltech. Lazar was registered in one of his courses at the same time Lazar was supposedly at MIT! Nobody who can go to MIT goes to Pierce JC, not to mention the rather long commute between LA and Cambridge, Mass… I checked his High School. He graduated in August, not with his class. The only science course he took was chemistry. He ranked 261 out of 369, which is in the bottom third. There is no way he would have been admitted by MIT or Caltech. An MS in Physics from MIT requires a thesis. No such thesis exists at MIT, and he is not on a commencement list. The notion that the government wiped his CIVILIAN records clean is absurd…Scientists leave trails. Lazar is NOT a scientist. He couldn't even answer scientific questions put to him. An excellent review of Bob's "Physics" can be seen at www.serve.com/mahood/lazar/critiq.htm. THIS IS PURE BUNK. BUNK. BUNK.” The pathetic part is that there are still people out there, like Dr. Michael Salla, who defend Lazar, and accept what he says to be the truth – which says as much about them as it does Lazar.

6. Billy Meier – An anecdotal story – my brother and I were attending a UFO conference where a Meier supporter was speaking. He showed some photos and film footage “taken” by Meier of alleged UFOs. My brother leaned over to me and said, “Is there anybody here who can’t tell those are fakes?” To which I replied, “Yeah, go figure. What really ticks me off, as a filmmaker, is how bad the fakes are. I mean, really – I’m offended.” And yet, there were more than a few in the audience that afternoon who bought it all, just as there are people around the planet (including a few extremely gullible UFO “researchers”) who continue to believe that Meier, a Swiss farmer who has claimed to be in contact with “Pleiadian” aliens for the past several decades, is really telling the truth. Of course, if you see Meier for what he really is, then you are, according to his website, “obviously envious, pseudo-scientists, sectarians, fanatics, schizophrenics, or simply slanderers” - so much for peace and love, and the brotherhood of mankind! Here’s all you really need to know about Meier, again from his website: “There is probably no other case as richly documented by witnesses’ testimonies and material as this one…” Wow - Witnesses! Great!! Oh, wait – there’s more: “…even though none of the witnesses has ever had personal contact with extraterrestrials (this privilege was granted exclusively to Billy by the extraterrestrials who came from the planet Erra in the open star cluster of the Pleiades. They have never conducted personal conversations or conscious telepathy with any other person.)” FYI to all Meier-ites – those AREN’T “witnesses,” and Meier ISN’T for real. He IS the direct inheritor of the legacy of George Adamski – and just as damaging to the overall reputation of ufology.

7. Frank Kaufmann & Gerald Anderson – Every lawyer wants witnesses who can corroborate the basic story his client is telling. In the case of Roswell, both of the leading investigators – Stan Friedman and Kevin Randle – wanted witnesses who would corroborate their competing versions of events, which each believed to be the truth. Then, along came Gerald Anderson and Frank Kaufmann, telling tales that Friedman (Anderson) and Randle (Kaufmann) wanted to hear. Randle defended Kaufmann and attacked Anderson, and Friedman defended Anderson and went after Kaufmann. As we now know, both Anderson and Kaufmann were frauds, and both Friedman and Randle got taken as a result. The will to believe (and perhaps the need to one-up each other) got the better of Friedman and Randle for several years, undermining their credibility as investigators in general, and the Roswell case in particular, as they continued to defend Anderson and Kaufmann even after it should have been obvious that they were indefensible. Still, this was the effect – the cause were the falsehoods told by Anderson and Kaufmann, who serve as evidence not of the reality of Roswell, but rather the old saying that if “something is too good to be true, it probably is.”

8. Philip J. Corso – Proof that an honourable military career does not necessarily an honest man make. Corso’s The Day After Roswell basically set him up as the reverse-engineering genius behind everything from the integrated circuit chip (from Roswell to Silicon Valley), to the laser, to the microwave oven. Alas, it was all bunk, the ufological equivalent of the day after a 20 beer drunk – it might have felt good going down, but caused a lot of havoc on the way back up when you realize you can’t stomach it. By misleading Senator Strom Thurmond into writing an introduction for his book (Corso told Thurmond that it was about his career in the military, not Roswell), Corso may have been the first person to generate sympathy for the one-time segregationist Senator, which is, admittedly, quite a feat. Many have called Corso a fraud, which is on the mark. The better term, however, would be “carpetbagger,” because that’s what he did with Roswell.

9. Philip J. Klass – He made the Top 10 list simply because his impact on ufology cannot be ignored. He makes the Bottom 10 list because no-one (not even Donald Menzel) ever offered as many hair-brained, wacked-out, patently ridiculous explanations for the UFO phenomenon as Klass, and no-one (not even Donald Menzel) was ever as mean-spirited when doing it. Some people think Klass served a valuable function by keeping ufologists honest over the years. While that may have been true early on, the fact is that he quickly became such an obvious debunker (as opposed to a fair-minded skeptic) that he wound being ignored, or ridiculed - usually both.

10. Wilbert Smith – It’s hard to sum up everything that is wrong with the Wilbert Smith story in a short paragraph, but here goes (Some factually-challenged folks will no doubt call the following “character assassination.” Que sera sera...): Myths: Wilbert Smith was (a) a pioneering ufologist; (b) head of Canada’s super-secret UFO research and investigation program in the 1950s; (c) privy to the secrets of American UFO programs and research, including alien bodies; and (d) a top scientist. Facts: Wilbert Smith was (a) a UFO believer and a “contactee”; (b) a mid-level civil servant in Canada’s Department of Transportation in the 1950s, where he worked in commercial radio and television regulatory oversight; (c) director of a self-described “part-time” Project Magnet and operator of a “spare-time” UFO “research” station at Shirley’s Bay, Ontario, the latter not an official government project, and the former a project that failed in every respect – both were ignominiously cancelled by 1954; (d) author of a “Top Secret” memo that was not Top Secret (he just stamped it Top Secret), was not primarily about “flying saucers” (rather it was about “geo-magnetics”), and was full of more factual and logical holes than a block of Swiss cheese. And yet more than a few ufologists (most of whom have never done any real research into Smith's work or background) still treat Smith as some kind of ufolgical hero, which is the equivalent of confusing the Joker with Batman. For more info, see my various articles concerning my research into Smith.

Dishonourable mention – Wendelle Stevens, William L. Moore, Linda Moulton Howe, Donald Schmitt, William Steinman, Howard Menger, William Cooper, Dr. Michael Salla, Jeff Rense, Art Bell, Dr. Donald Menzel, Dr. Carl Sagan, Dr. Frank Drake, Richard Doty, Timothy Cooper, MJ-12, J-Rod

54 comments:

RRRGroup said...

Eliza...

I think you've got it...

The reigns in this Spain were really a pain.)

RR

Dante Rosati said...

Hi Paul-

Adamski and Meier are not ufologists- they are multi-media performance artists. :-)

Greer is a mixed bag for sure, but I think there are enough real witnesses in his Disclosure Project to not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

I can't help haveing a soft spot in my heart for Howard Menger either- another performance artist. I love his book "From Outer Space to You" and I was very disappointed when I was outbid on ebay last year trying to score his record of music from Saturn.

Dante

Paul Kimball said...

Dante:

If "performance artist" means the same thing as "outright fraud," then I heartily agree.

Seriously, however, the damage that those two - Meier now, Adamski then - do / did to ufology's reputation is what lands them on the list.

I agree that they aren't ufologists, but neither was Condon - who would certainly have recoiled in horror if anyone called him a "ufologist" - nor Newton, Kaufmann, Anderson, Corso. The list, however, refers not to ufologists in particular, but ufology in general - which includes people who have been involved in other ways, so long as they made an impact (in this case a negative one).

Go Bush! :-)

Paul

P.S. I couldn't resist! LOL

Paul Kimball said...

Rich:

Thanks... I think.

Paul

Dante Rosati said...

Paul-

If by "Bush" you mean: "psychotic liar", then I heartily agree.

(couldn't resist!)

Dante

Paul Kimball said...

Dante:

Fair enough. As Oscar Wilde said, "I couldn't help it. I can resist everything except temptation."

Paul

Kyle said...

Paul -

What is notable is that your bottom 10 is clearly less debatable than your top 10.


UFO truth (and its promoters) is more difficult to discern than UFO quackery (and its quacks)...as it should be.

I find your list unassailable...particularly Meier and Adamski who wasted considerable creative energy building and photographing their "creations" and feeding them to the masses.

One thought - Klass might be excused as many of his theories actually HELP the credibility of Ufology, by appearing so staunchly "unbelievable" even to skeptics. *S*

Kyle
UFOreflections.blogspot.com

Anonymous said...

I honestly think Bud Hopkins' most recent book (can't remember the name of it) is absurd---and as author of it, Hopkins deserves to be on the negative list. Because it's a resource and part of the fabric of the study of UFOs I keep my copy of it on my UFO bookshelf, but it embaresses me every time I look at it.

Anonymous said...

There are others.

Let's look at the sudden new "Doctors" in UFOlogy, and the credentials of some others.

"Dr." Kevin Randle (former science fiction writer -- where is the Ph.D. from? when?)

"Dr." John Alexander (former county sheriff) (ditto)

Stan Freidman (hasn't been a "nuclear physicist" for over 30 years. But at least didn't buy a Ph.D.)

The "astronaut" Brian O'Leary never flew above 50 miles, so cannot be called that name, and never was by NASA.

Dr. Courtney Brown (political science professor) is oh, so well qualified to speak on technical issues like UFOs.

These poseurs damage whatever little credibility the field ever had, which puts it close to zero.

At least Klass offers up arguments (however silly at times) that have to be addressed.

There is no top ten. The top two have to be the late Dr. Hynek and Jacques Vallee. Add Jim McCampell there, too.

Anonymous said...

Dishonourable mention -......
Paul Kimball

Paul Kimball said...

That would have a little more "oomph" if you had the guts to sign your name, Anonymous.

Paul Kimball

Anonymous said...

Paul,

Choosing the "anonymity" option has nothing to do with guts. It has to do with common sense and preservation of personal privacy on the internet. Been the bad place before with internet discussions---not going there again. I do use my real name in moderated non-public venues. Besides, since we don't know each other, I don't see what my name or not has to do with the validity of my opinion. Be nice.

Sincerely,
Jane Doe

SUPER U.F.O. ACTION said...

I was tempted to suggest Von Danieken but I decided against it. I firmly believe that popular interest in UFOs is tantamount to the survival of the field.

I realize that this is difficult to reconcile with blatant cranks like Moore and fakes like Meier (and credentialed quacks like Von Danieken and John Mack) but I am somewhat reluctant to completely chuck the baby with the bath water.

Obviously, the 20 million books "Chariots of the Gods" (and "Communion" for that matter)sold perpetuated an industry and all the good or bad which goes with it. I fear current UFOology with its prissy infighting and increasingly obscure debates on minutiae is most likely to bore to death anybody with less than an obsessive fixation on the subject.

That being said, how about a vote for Ed Walters?

Paul Kimball said...

"Jane" -

If a person isn't willing to sign their name, people, including me, will accord their opinion the value it's worth.

Paul

Anonymous said...

Art Bell? Carl Sagan? Jeff Rense?

Your also-ran list, without explanation, appears to be politically-and-otherwise motivated.

Some "Paranormal Personalities" must, from time to time, examine phenomena that are of dubious existence, purely for the entertainment value of doing so. It tickles the mind, perhaps not for the most logical of scientists, but for the general populace. People enjoy being handed such banal logic puzzles, even when the presentation is made with the utmost sincerity. Logos prevails, my friend.

PS - Bush is an idiot.

Jeb said...

The also-ran list would have been a lot more entertaining, precisely because the bottom ten are so obvious.

But that said, von Danieken is credentialed? Last time I checked, he was a hotel clerk before writing his books.

SUPER U.F.O. ACTION said...

You are wrong about Von Daniken. He has an Honorary Doctorate degree by the State University of Bolivia.

Paul Kimball said...

Super U.F.O. -

While there's nothing wrong with an honourary doctorate, it does not make one "credentialed."

Many people have honourary doctorates in law, but they're not lawyers.

Paul

Michael Horn said...

I noticed that some uneducated folks have contributed the predictable nonsense regarding the Meier case. I would like to enter the fray but I really do request that you do some research so that your questions and challenges are credible and not just the usual, easily dismissed skeptical bilge. I've already beaten the tar out of the poseurs at CFI-West and James Randi so I hope that you have something new to offer here.

I'd especially like to hear from anyone who has troubled themselves to go over and meet the people involved, who has studied all the available information and who can explain how Meier has managed to have published a significant amount of (error free) prophetically accurate scientific and world event related information years, even decades before "official" discovery or occurrence.

I have an ample amount of FREE information at www.theyfly.com. For those of you who would like to prove the case a hoax, you might start by duplicating the sounds of the UFO, FREELY available at my site. And, of course, if any of you have succeeded in duplicating Meier's photos and films (that means that they pass the same photographic analysis standards that you can find at my site) please don't waste a moment and let's see them.

Not being familiar with this blog other than what I've just read, I don't know if it's a serious attempt at finding truth or (another) site designed to bolster the egos and insecurities of people who are intimidated by something of the magnitude of the Meier case and who are not used to having their feet held to the fire.

So, if this is a serious discussion, please do your homework and then come at me with both barrels blazing.

Best,

MH

Anonymous said...

As the previous 'anonymous" who posted the list of phony-credentialed "UFOlogists", I would like to respond to Paul's criticism: Many of us in the real world, with real credentials, know and understand a lot more about so-called UFOs than any of the people I put on the list. Only a very few, I would venture, know the precise differences among the six classes. (I invite them to respond here, if they wish. For those who don't understand the statement, you ought to go play games or do something else useful with your time. You obviously don't know your "UFOs".)

I either know or have heard all of the people on my list, and simply do not choose to further the time wasting in-fighting, nor to bring turmoil to the actual people -- like Vallee and some of us unnamed ones -- who sincerely try to bring light to the subject.

If the space program were run by people like Randle, Alexander, Brown, Friedman, ad nauseum, we would have never launched one satellite. They are not scientists, they are not engineers, they are not technicians, and they probably don't have one patent or technical paper to their names, collectively. Store-bought Ph.D. degrees do not cut it with the scientific community.

Unfortunately, UFOlogy is run by a bunch of amateurs who wouldn't know an extraterrestrial craft or a chronospatial device if it appeared in front of them. They are in the field only to sell books and lectures and truly hope the phenomena are never solved in their lifetimes. They would have nothing left to make a living.

Until real Science (with a capital S) gets involved, we will make no more progress than we have since 1947. Which is to say, zero.

Jim Deardorff said...

Paul,

Your slander of Meier merely shows your ignorance of the facts, or your propensity for accepting what you want to believe without checking into it first.

When you use sarcasm and generalisms, and no logical analysis, it doesn't cut any weight in science. Witnesses are very valuable in supporting the genuineness of a UFO case. There are lots of sincere, credible Meier-case witnesses. If you don't believe it, learn about them. E.g., see my own website at: www.tjresearch.info/witnessa.htm and www.tjresearch.info/witness.htm . It's all there, and in the witnesses' own words (translated into English).

And look at his photos and film that show convincing events even if one does not possess the originals to inspect. There's the occasion when Meier was running his 8mm tripod-mounted movie camera, and at one point the "beamship" jumped from one location to another, still within the frame of the film. The craft actually shows up in one particular frame in both places. This was in 1976. See www.tjresearch.info/bachtel.htm.

There's much more, including the witness who spoke out at Laughlin in 1999 who had seen Meier with his ET contactor, and also seen him photographing the ET's craft in the sky above an ashram in India in 1964.

There's much more in my website, including refutations of a lot of false claims against Meier. Ignore it all at your own expense.
Jim

Anonymous said...

You know Paul, I wonder about what "seriously ufology" has accomplished over the last 50 years.It looks like the best "serious ufologists" can do is discredit other sources while getting no closer to any real answers.Seems to me "serious ufologists" are kinda stuck.

mako said...

This is a game of facetious entertainment, right? My guess is not a single one of you has ever experienced a single bona fide, in your face, up close and personal, I am big and you are very, very small close encounter with a UFO. If you had, you wouldn't be so flippant or mercantile about it. Your bickering amounts to surgeons discussing their golf handicaps while performing life threatening surgery over someones' loved-one. Your contribution to this issue is as helpful as the clandestine pricks who deliberately obfuscate or hide the truth; not to mention false flagging information to redirect us away from the truth. I don't need ufologists, Roswell or fuzzy lights in the sky. BIG DEAL! I need the TRUTH and to hear it from that small, bewildered and frightened minority who got too close for comfort; without all you personalities standing in the way. I don't buy your books or videos prefering to hear witness where I can look into their eyes and see the fear and measure the credibility of their words for myself. You talk like you really know something but most of you are fooling yourselves. SOMETHING IS GOING ON and y'all are being played right into it!

SUPER U.F.O. ACTION said...

Re: Credentials and VOn Danieken

Well, the "Von" makes him seem pretty serious. I was joking about the degree though.


Personally, I have a hard time taking anyone seriously who uses "Billy" in a professional capacity. I would opt for William Von Meir. I would believe anything someone with that name said. Even better, you could throw Dr. in front or perhaps "Nuclear Physicist" after. Or both.

Michael Horn said...

Of course, coming from someone using such a moniker, the above comments are surely not to be taken seriously. Unfortunately though, they are absolutely indicative of the lack of research, investigation and thinking that is the hallmark of Meier's know-it-all critics. It's a shame that people have so little respect for others, and themselves, that they freely slander or libel people about whom they know absolutely nothing, relying on hearsay and their own uninformed prejudices as the propellent for their pontifications.

While the blog's author has demonstrated their ignorance by assigning Meier a deragatory status to elevate their ego, in a contemptuously cowardly manner they offered not one shred of evidence, focusing instead on directing their energies to parading their cleverness and self-importance.

While the author here has not substantiated his assault against Meier's credibility, the authenticity of his photographic and film evidence has been supported by real professionals, such as the man who did the special effects for Kubrick's "2001". More recently, the principals in the company that did the Academy Award-winning special effects for "Independence Day", in shooting down the charges of the skeptics from CFI-West, dismissed the notion that Meier's films were made with models and also said that IF they could duplicate them, it would require CGI...which clearly wasn't available to the one-armed Meier in the 1970s.

But you knew that, didn't you?

Paul Kimball said...

Mr. Horn:

You can believe what you want about Meier, and I'm sure you'll get a few people to take the trip with you.

I feel sorry for them, just as I take some solace from the fact that the vast majority of people see the Meier story for what it is.

Paul Kimball

Michael Horn said...

Hi Paul,

Precisely what I expected from some spineless joker who can't back up his slimy accusations. I have no need to "believe" anything, we've proved the authenticity of the case. But since you can't offer ONE specific, credible, substantiated fact to back up your cheap shots, you fall into the category of coward, defamer and poseur. Put that in your resume.

And as for the quality of the people who've taken that "trip" with me:

David Froning: At the time, Dr. Froning had already spent 25 years as an astronautical engineer at McDonnell Douglas in highly classified military defense and, in 1979, became interested in Meier’s accounts of Plejaren starship travel, which mentioned tachyon propulsion. Dr. Froning found Meier's account of tachyon propulsion (which was only beginning to be discussed by a very small and select group of theoretical physicists), and his calculations for above light speed travel to be amazing. In 1983, he was pursuing his Quantum Interstellar Ramjet idea (JBIS vol. 33, no. 7, July 1980; AIAA 81-1533, July1981; IAF-85-492, October, 1985) and plugged in his Quantum Ramjet performance equations, assuming: a given starship density, vacuum energy conversion efficiency (in transforming positrons and electrons within the quantum vacuum into photons), and vacuum energy conversion scales of distance of the order of the Compton wavelength. The resulting vehicle acceleration enabled achievement of almost light speed in about 4.3 hours and deceleration from light speed in about 4.3 hours. Meier said that the elapsed time during the "hyperspace jump" took only several seconds. Thus, trip time between the Pleiades star cluster and Earth with Froning’s slower-than-light Quantum Ramjet Drive plus a hypothetical tachyon drive would be 8.6 hours, which was within 20% of the Plejaren trip time reported by Meier. But, while Froning’s calculations were based on many arbitrary assumptions, and in no way proved the truthfulness of Meier's account (since it was a theoretical system he was working on, only time will tell as to which are correct) Froning was somewhat startled that his arbitrary flight time computations were within 20% of the flight time mentioned by Meier. Regarding the Meier material, Dr. Froning also publicly stated that, “My colleagues and I may have made breakthroughs in our understanding of possibilities and ways for traveling faster than light from Billy Meier's accounts of his encounters with the Plejarens.”

Eric Eliason: U.S. Geological Survey in Flagstaff, Arizona, created image-processing software so astrogeologists can analyze photographs of planets beamed back from space, spent two years producing the intricate radar map of cloud-covered Venus acquired by Pioneer 10: "In the photographs there were no sharp breaks where you could see it had been somehow artificially dubbed. And if that dubbing was registered in the film, the computer would have seen it. We didn't see anything."

Robert Post: JPL photo laboratory for 22 years, was the head of that lab in 1979, and oversaw the developing and printing of every photograph that came out of JPL at the time: "From a photography standpoint, you couldn't see anything that was fake about the Meier photos. That's what struck me. They looked like legitimate photographs. I thought, 'God, if this is real, this is going to be really something.”

Dr. Michael Malin: Principal investigator for the Mars Orbiter Camera on NASA's Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft at Malin Space Science Systems (MSSS), San Diego, CA. Analyzed Meier’s photographs in 1981: "I find the photographs themselves credible, they're good photographs. They appear to represent a real phenomenon. The story that some farmer in Switzerland is on a first name basis with dozens of aliens who come to visit him ... I find that incredible. But I find the photographs more credible. They're reasonable evidence of something. What that something is I don't know." Malin also said, "If the photographs are hoaxes then I am intrigued by the quality of the hoax. How did he do it? I'm always interested in seeing a master at work."

Steve Ambrose: Sound engineer for Stevie Wonder, inventor of the Micro Monitor radio set and speaker that fits inside Wonder's ear, analyzed the Meier sound recordings of one of the UFO’s as it hovered above him. Not only was he unable to duplicate the sounds with synthesizers, he found they created totally unique patterns on a spectrum analyzer and on the oscilloscope. Another sound engineer named Nils Rognerud corroborated Ambrose’s findings. Think about this for just a moment, these experts, using state-of-the-art equipment, were unable to duplicate the sounds and the unique patterns they generated.

Wally Gentleman: Director of Special Effects on the Canadian Film Board for ten years, director of special photographic effects for Stanley Kubrick's film 2001, had viewed Meier’s 8mm film segments of the UFO’s. Showed that the manpower and costs to fake the films were clearly beyond Meier’s reach: "My greatest problem is that for anybody faking this" (referring to one of the photographs) "the shadow that is thrown onto that tree is correct. Therefore, if somebody is faking it they have an expert there. And being an expert myself, I know that that expert knowledge is very hard to come by. So I say, 'Well, is that expert knowledge there or isn't it there?' Because if the expert knowledge isn't there, this has got to be real."

Nippon TV: Did their own examination and also came to the conclusion that there were no models, special effects or hoaxing involved in Meier’s films.

Marcel Vogel: Research chemist for IBM for twenty-two years, held thirty-two patents, and invented the magnetic disk coating memory system still used in IBM disk memories. A specialist in the conversion of energy inside crystals, Vogel probed crystalline structures with the most complete optical microscopic equipment available in the world - a system of scanning electron microscopes costing $250,000. Lieut. Col. Wendelle Stevens, USAF (Ret.): One of the original investigators in the Meier case. In 1979, he sent Vogel crystals and metal samples Meier had received from the Plejarens. Vogel reported, ”When I touched the oxide with a stainless steel probe, red streaks appeared and the oxide coating disappeared. I just touched the metal like that, and it started to deoxidize and become a pure metal. I have never seen a phenomenon like that before.” Of another metal sample containing nearly every element in the periodic table, Vogel stated, “Each pure element was bonded to each of the others, yet somehow retained its own identity.” At 500 X magnification thulium was revealed. “Thulium exists only in minute amounts. It is exceedingly expensive, far beyond platinum, and rare to come by. Someone would have to have an extensive metallurgical knowledge even to be aware of a composition of this type", said Vogel. At 1600 X Vogel said, "A whole new world appears in the specimen. There are structures within structures - very unusual." At 2500 X he found that the sample was, “metal, but at the same time ... it is crystal!"

Vogel put the full weight of his expertise in these summary comments: "With any technology that I know of, we could not achieve this on this planet! ... And I think it is important that those of us who are in the scientific world sit down and do some serious study on these things instead of putting it off as people's imagination." Again, here is another top-level scientific specialist who is unable to duplicate the material presented to him by Meier.

Since posing seems to be your real specialty, I suggest that you focus on posing for pictures instead of venturing into territory that you are utterly unqualified to comment on.

Michael Horn said...

P.S. And anyone with an ounce of integrity would either refute all of the experts above, and ALL of the other substantiating information and reseearch on the case, or have the decency to remove their smear job...and publicly apologize to Meier for their ill-informed, inaccurate defamation. A little sincere humility can be quite redeeming.

MH

David Chance said...

It is due to the slanderous attacks on Mr. Meier by such self-proclaimed "researchers" as Kal Korff that much of the negativity directed towards him and his claims has come about. If anyone is serious about considering the validity of the Eduard Meier case and the evidence he presents for his claims, they should at least delve into the depths of the matter rather than relying on misinformed and underinformed comments and "studies". A lengthy bibliography of items related to the case, both pro and con, can be found here: http://www25.brinkster.com/chancede/Meier.html

Anonymous said...

I'm surprised to see Billy Meier at no. 6....should be number 1.

Even the so-called "media representative" for this "case" (and I use the term loosely) cannot fathom to grip a case can't be examined without original data...to which he can provide ABSOLUTELY NONE. The photos (including those of Pleadians...who turned out to be dancers from an old TV show...oh wait...no the Men In Black replaced those photos when Billy was caught...riiiight), the "metal samples", right down to his "prophetically accurate information" (nothing but guesses upon summarations of newspaper articles and science publications available to everyone)...turns to crap.
I cannot concieve of an individual with intelligence paying so much as one iota of attention to this drivel. But they do...and boy do they.
Horn scores as many "victories" as a football player who kicks a goal after the end of the game...exclaiming to everyone and anyone who'll listen that his team won.
Give it up Mikie, the stands are empty.

Michael Horn said...

Yes indeed, I see our cowardly friends here are unable to respond to specifics, as usual but boy do they love to try to bring others down to their level. Ah, how I love to publicly debate these flatulent types and watch their credibility crumple like a piece of toilet paper, as they're plunged into ridicule and flushed into oblivion.

At least the hapless fellows at CFI-West TRIED to duplicate Meier's evidence but jokers like Mr. a here will only hide like frightened little girls behind their anonymity (we know, you're VERY important, yadda-yadda) and spout the skeptics' party lines.

Really, Paul, you probably (and certainly should) feel embarrassed by showing yourself to be such a wimpy, characterless fellow. You know how it works, you either support your accusations against someone or you withdraw them...and apologize. So, how's about a little substance from you, you know, show us the stuff that's supposed to be count. In other words, do the right thing...and act like a man.

MH

Paul Kimball said...

Mr. Horn:

Good grief.

Go away... back to your Plejaren chat groups etc, where you call everyone who has the temerity to disagree with you an "idiot."

You're not interested in a dialogue - you're a zealot. That's fine. Just go be a zealot somewhere else.

For the record - I've seen the film, and the photos. I am convinced they are fake. I work in the film and television industry. I've talked to others about them. No-one (repeat - no-one) I have talked to believes they are real.

Here's some free publicity, however. I encourage folks to wander over to your website - www.theyfly.com - and check out the photos themselves. Make your own judgments.

Surely, Mr. Horn, you can't expect people to do anything other than that?

Who knows - maybe when they're at your site, they'll stop by the products page and buy some of the stuff you have for sale.

File it under "Prophet for Sale."

Paul Kimball

Anonymous said...

Make no mistake about it, Mr. Horn deals in "anonymous" alot...

...shall we go to your "anonymous" award winning special effects house in LA Mikie? The one that you shove down everyone's throat but dont have a name or people to go with it?

...how about the "anonymous" switching of the Asket photos with Dean Martin dancers?? Hmmm?

...how about all these anonymous "researchers" you've offered to open the case fully to? The ones that dont exist because there's NO original footage nor material samples to be examined?

Oh...right Meier has the metal...he just doesnt want to give it to people who can prove or disprove his "case"...because he doesnt want it "lost". Yeah.

These Meier people want you to accept model photos, non-existant metal samples, analysis on photos and samples...of photos an samples that no longer exist.

But thats not it claims Horn, the real case is the prophetic information...ahhh...so lets just chuck all the other stuff.

He spins around the very aspects of the case that brought it to public light, then says "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

I choose anonimity out of saftey concerns...it's my personal opinion these people are one step shy of dangerous.

Michael Horn said...

Paul,

You, through your cowardice and (still) unsubstantiated charges, invite the opportunity to hold your feet to the fire. Apparently you're more devoted to image (mainly yours) than substance, as your own "proof" above is truly pathetic. You're "convinced" but, pray tell, by what standards of testing? In the real world, maybe unlike the field you're in, these things count. Please, be my guest, tell me that because you "work in the television and film industry" that superesedes scientific analysis of Meier's evidence and the qualified conclusions of others, in your same field, who stand head and shoulders above you. Go ahead, you've defamed someone on the flimsiest of criteria, if any, and if you were real man and not someone simply posing as one, you'd put up or shut up.

And you live in a world where what unnamed people "believe" is real is the same as proof? Really?

So you attack a man who's been dodging assassin's bullets for his troubles since the time you were walking around with a load of crap in your pants, which apparently migrated up above your shoulders to be excreted in the direction of good people you are most unworthy to judge.

You're apparently a member of that shameless breed of superficial, image-oriented non-thinkers who freely parade their vapidity (and stupidity) and have neither the character nor good sense to know when they're way out of line, as well as way out of their league.

And as long long as pathetic little cowards like you go and slander people, you will face just criticism in return. While it really deserves no response, typical of the desperate tactics of defamers who'd like to transfer their materialistic motives to me, anyone coming by my site would be wise to do what you haven't, i.e. read the abundant information there and deal with the facts on their merits.

But I'm sure you'd rather visit the hairdresser and manicurist than trouble yourself to develop some critical thinking skills.

Again, retract or prove your charges. Act like a man.

MH

Michael Horn said...

Oh yeah, there's that scared guy again lurking in the shadows who apparentlly can't read. So, for his benefit, let's list some of the good folks who've already weighed in on the case and, this time, let's see if he'll actually try to rebut them, i.e. slander their reputations:

Scientific Experts’ Comments on Meier’s Evidence

From Author Gary Kinder’s “Open Letter to the UFO Community”

David Froning: At the time, Dr. Froning had already spent 25 years as an astronautical engineer at McDonnell Douglas in highly classified military defense and, in 1979, became interested in Meier’s accounts of Plejaren starship travel, which mentioned tachyon propulsion. Dr. Froning found Meier's account of tachyon propulsion (which was only beginning to be discussed by a very small and select group of theoretical physicists), and his calculations for above light speed travel to be amazing. In 1983, he was pursuing his Quantum Interstellar Ramjet idea (JBIS vol. 33, no. 7, July 1980; AIAA 81-1533, July1981; IAF-85-492, October, 1985) and plugged in his Quantum Ramjet performance equations, assuming: a given starship density, vacuum energy conversion efficiency (in transforming positrons and electrons within the quantum vacuum into photons), and vacuum energy conversion scales of distance of the order of the Compton wavelength. The resulting vehicle acceleration enabled achievement of almost light speed in about 4.3 hours and deceleration from light speed in about 4.3 hours. Meier said that the elapsed time during the "hyperspace jump" took only several seconds. Thus, trip time between the Pleiades star cluster and Earth with Froning’s slower-than-light Quantum Ramjet Drive plus a hypothetical tachyon drive would be 8.6 hours, which was within 20% of the Plejaren trip time reported by Meier. But, while Froning’s calculations were based on many arbitrary assumptions, and in no way proved the truthfulness of Meier's account (since it was a theoretical system he was working on, only time will tell as to which are correct) Froning was somewhat startled that his arbitrary flight time computations were within 20% of the flight time mentioned by Meier. Regarding the Meier material, Dr. Froning also publicly stated that, “My colleagues and I may have made breakthroughs in our understanding of possibilities and ways for traveling faster than light from Billy Meier's accounts of his encounters with the Plejarens.”

Eric Eliason: U.S. Geological Survey in Flagstaff, Arizona, created image-processing software so astrogeologists can analyze photographs of planets beamed back from space, spent two years producing the intricate radar map of cloud-covered Venus acquired by Pioneer 10: "In the photographs there were no sharp breaks where you could see it had been somehow artificially dubbed. And if that dubbing was registered in the film, the computer would have seen it. We didn't see anything."
Robert Post: JPL photo laboratory for 22 years, was the head of that lab in 1979, and oversaw the developing and printing of every photograph that came out of JPL at the time: "From a photography standpoint, you couldn't see anything that was fake about the Meier photos. That's what struck me. They looked like legitimate photographs. I thought, 'God, if this is real, this is going to be really something.”
Dr. Michael Malin: Principal investigator for the Mars Orbiter Camera on NASA's Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft at Malin Space Science Systems (MSSS), San Diego, CA. Analyzed Meier’s photographs in 1981: "I find the photographs themselves credible, they're good photographs. They appear to represent a real phenomenon. The story that some farmer in Switzerland is on a first name basis with dozens of aliens who come to visit him ... I find that incredible. But I find the photographs more credible. They're reasonable evidence of something. What that something is I don't know." Malin also said, "If the photographs are hoaxes then I am intrigued by the quality of the hoax. How did he do it? I'm always interested in seeing a master at work."
Steve Ambrose: Sound engineer for Stevie Wonder, inventor of the Micro Monitor radio set and speaker that fits inside Wonder's ear, analyzed the Meier sound recordings of one of the UFO’s as it hovered above him. Not only was he unable to duplicate the sounds with synthesizers, he found they created totally unique patterns on a spectrum analyzer and on the oscilloscope. Another sound engineer named Nils Rognerud corroborated Ambrose’s findings. Think about this for just a moment, these experts, using state-of-the-art equipment, were unable to duplicate the sounds and the unique patterns they generated.

Wally Gentleman: Director of Special Effects on the Canadian Film Board for ten years, director of special photographic effects for Stanley Kubrick's film 2001, had viewed Meier’s 8mm film segments of the UFO’s. Showed that the manpower and costs to fake the films were clearly beyond Meier’s reach: "My greatest problem is that for anybody faking this" (referring to one of the photographs) "the shadow that is thrown onto that tree is correct. Therefore, if somebody is faking it they have an expert there. And being an expert myself, I know that that expert knowledge is very hard to come by. So I say, 'Well, is that expert knowledge there or isn't it there?' Because if the expert knowledge isn't there, this has got to be real."
Nippon TV: Did their own examination and also came to the conclusion that there were no models, special effects or hoaxing involved in Meier’s films.
Marcel Vogel: Research chemist for IBM for twenty-two years, held thirty-two patents, and invented the magnetic disk coating memory system still used in IBM disk memories. A specialist in the conversion of energy inside crystals, Vogel probed crystalline structures with the most complete optical microscopic equipment available in the world - a system of scanning electron microscopes costing $250,000. Lieut. Col. Wendelle Stevens, USAF (Ret.): One of the original investigators in the Meier case. In 1979, he sent Vogel crystals and metal samples Meier had received from the Plejarens. Vogel reported, ”When I touched the oxide with a stainless steel probe, red streaks appeared and the oxide coating disappeared. I just touched the metal like that, and it started to deoxidize and become a pure metal. I have never seen a phenomenon like that before.” Of another metal sample containing nearly every element in the periodic table, Vogel stated, “Each pure element was bonded to each of the others, yet somehow retained its own identity.” At 500 X magnification thulium was revealed. “Thulium exists only in minute amounts. It is exceedingly expensive, far beyond platinum, and rare to come by. Someone would have to have an extensive metallurgical knowledge even to be aware of a composition of this type", said Vogel. At 1600 X Vogel said, "A whole new world appears in the specimen. There are structures within structures - very unusual." At 2500 X he found that the sample was, “metal, but at the same time ... it is crystal!"

Vogel put the full weight of his expertise in these summary comments: "With any technology that I know of, we could not achieve this on this planet! ... And I think it is important that those of us who are in the scientific world sit down and do some serious study on these things instead of putting it off as people's imagination." Again, here is another top-level scientific specialist who is unable to duplicate the material presented to him by Meier.

Paul Kimball said...

Mr. Horn:

"Be a man?"

You must be watching too much professional wrestling (which, come to think of it, bears a striking similarity to the Meier story).

No wonder people stay away from ufology. By your posts here, you've simply confirmed for me (and many others, I think) that Meier and his acolytes definitely belong on this list.

You've had your say - and then some. All further comments by you will be deleted.

Vox Paul-uli.

Paul Kimball

P.S. If you weren't in it for the $, I would think that you'd sell everything at actual cost, or a slight profit, plus actual S & H. The fact that you don't (and I know exactly how much it costs to reproduce DVDs and CD-ROMs, and thus have a pretty good idea about the sizeable profit margin you have built in) speaks volumes, I think.

Adios.

Michael Horn said...

While you're deleting this, reflect on your cowardice. You can dish it out but can't take it, can you?
Meier's fair game but you, prancing little poseur, are not?

As for the DVD, what do you thinkj 26 yeears of research cost me?

You're a phony.

MH

Anonymous said...

There ya go typical response from the true believer...dont ever relate the current conversation, just regurgitate "facts".

Paul Kimball said...

Everyone:

I'll let Mr. Horn's last response stand, and direct everyone to the challenge found in "Meier, Meier... 'Pants on Fire'" here at The Other Side of Truth (posted today, 19 July 2005).

Let's see who the coward is, and who can dish it out, but can't take it.

Paul Kimball

Michael Horn said...

It's usually necessary for achallenge to be posted for it to be responded to, although your cheerleaders haven't done so even when it was presented.

MH

Paul Kimball said...

Mr. Horn:

I have no idea what that means.

Anyway, the challenge is posted (er... as I noted above) at this site. Here's the exact link:

www.redstarfilms.blogspot.com/2005/07/meier-meier-pants-on-fire.html

Paul Kimball

Michael Horn said...

And that's the challenge? I see. Well, let's address it then (even though I find it odd that you’d unquestioningly accept the CFI-West version, unchallenged).

First, as anyone who's actually researched the case already knows (and that leaves all of you out but we'll proceed) Meier's photos were taken between 1964 and 1979, long before home computers, PhotoShop, digital effects, etc. A full investigation of the photographic evidence included the making of UFO models by a special effects studio, at the specific request of the investigative team.

This was done in order to compare photos taken by Meier with photos of known, small models for comparison. In order for you to proceed with any credibility you will have to read, and credibly refute, the information in the document titled Analysis of Meier's UFO Photographs that is freely available at www.theyfly.com. However, if you’d really like it, I could put some price on it so that you would have an excuse to not read it.

Now, one of things that you’ll probably wonder about it how a one-armed man, with no technology, no accomplices, no finances, etc. managed to create such convincing “hoaxes” that they required, and met, all of the parameters of the testing. And before you try to trash the report, note that you and all of your friends who are about to weigh in on your behalf with their expertise, are now obligated (since you stuck your foot in your wide open mouth) to do exactly what CFI-West actually agreed to and, of course, failed to do, i.e. duplicate one of Meier’s photos using the same equipment available to him. Please follow along here because you’ve now entered a slightly different world and purpose, since the results of your efforts will be fairly – and WIDELY – reported. Let’s face it, I’ve gotten tired of kicking CFI-West around and we need some bold, new, foolish fellows to entertain us. Which is where you come in.

To continue, in order to save some face, CFI-West did their little show about my sending them the negatives because it’s widely and openly known that Meier’s original negatives are gone, unfortunately. But that won’t stop you I’m sure from duplicating a 35mm photo and….wait, you’re a filmmaker! Okay, you also get to fulfill the other part of the challenge that CFI-West accepted and failed, you get to duplicate one of Meier’s films taken with an 8mm camera.

Now, while you don’t like the fact that the negatives are gone, I’m sure that won’t stop you from demonstrating that Meier’s photos were faked (and how he did it). And, of course, you’re first going to have to deal with the report from Stevens, a man who was researching anomalous objects since 1947, long before you were born (do the math).

But wait, you did say that you wanted some physical evidence so, as they used to say on those TV shows, we don’t want you to go away empty handed. A brief visit to my site will also enable you to download the sounds of the UFO, I’m so sorry but they are FREE, recorded outdoors on cassette machines…in front of 15 witnesses. Now, while three professional sound studios were unable to either identify or duplicate the sounds, I know that you guys can simply go outside in an empty field, plunk down your AIWA and, voila, your recording will be just as convincing as Meier’s, won’t it? Oh yeah, there’s another one of those very expensive free articles at my site that will help you understand what the parameters of testing were, what the results were…and what you have to live up to. Physical evidence, right there, pretty simple. Go get it, tiger.

But wait, there’s more! Yes, indeed, you’ll find some photos of some New Physical Evidence that are linked through a few clicks, starting on my homepage. These hand and fingerprints (six fingers and a thumb) are, to the best of my knowledge, still etched into the surface of the car on Meier’s property. If that’s the case, you and your buddies can get in touch with some objective scientific experts (including an anatomist, I suggest) and arrange to hightail your know-it-all butts over there to examine it. We’ll set up the parameters, etc.

Now, let’s get back to that little item from the kids at CFI-West. Obviously the challenge wasn’t to duplicate the “effect”, I could do that myself by throwing a paper plate in the air and photographing it, or renting a sci-fi movie where someone’s done it a little better. No, anyone with half a brain would understand that the challenge was to duplicate Meier’s photo (and film), i.e. submit them for testing – and have them authenticated - by the same parameters that Meier’s were. Again, pretty obvious but you prefer to quote a pathetic pack of bozos who’ve been tripping all over themselves since our one-armed friend made them (and perhaps soon some other folks, not to mention names) look like a bunch of fools.

And let me suggest that, in proving or disproving a real case, there are standards, parameters, etc. regarding evidence and proof such as, physical evidence, firsthand knowledge, expert testimony, competency of witnesses, demonstrative evidence, official written statements and records, best evidence and authentication, opportunity, motive, presence of collaborators, finances, etc. Since you are unfamiliar with the lengthy, in depth investigation in the Meier case, you’re probably ignorant of the how well all of these considerations have been applied in testing the evidence, witnesses, etc. – and how well the case has faired under real criteria and not the ignorant blathering of armchair experts.

Do yourself a huge favor and try to come off better than CFI-West did, especially since I’m going to be featuring you and your efforts as part of my international presentations (four in Australia coming up, then N. CA, etc.). That’s right, as I did for the CFI-West crowd, I’m a-gonna make youse guys faaaaaamooose! See, you’re gonna be the (next) brilliant crew to “prove the Meier case is a hoax”!

And, as they say, no response is a BIG response.

So, you’ve got work to do. And, may I suggest that until you’ve lived up to the challenge, it would be the gentlemanly thing to remove your aspersions regarding Meier. Once you’ve proved your claims against him of course you can put ‘em right back up.

Just so it’s clear, familiarize yourself with the equipment used by Meier , and the standards of testing for the photographic evidence that authenticated his evidence, since you’ll have to conform to them. Do the same regarding the sounds since, I presume, you’ll knock those out for us pretty quickly. Hint: notice the words “spectrum analyzer” and “oscilloscope”, your sounds will have to perform on those as Meier’s did.

Now, go for it and, yes, I’ll be happy to answer some questions…even though what I expect from you are answers.

MH

Anonymous said...

From what I've heard, the 2 top worse UFO-ologiest are more likely these people set in the "UFO hall of shame" website.

Forwarded here. Link no longer or not active at this time.

-----------------------
1) Paul Kimball - says he's a UFO-ologist with scholarships which of course has nothing to do with the science of UFOs, at least Canadian Stanton Freeman was a nuclear physicist with something really intelligent to say regarding such UFO possibilities, but someone like Paul Kimball is more like a self proclaimed Television producer who probably doesn't even know the beginnings of what computer CGI special effects are all about, never mind claiming to know the first thing about forensic photo analysis. Keep in mind here's a guy of course who will sell out Canada to the Americans without a second thought and according to a number of movie producers from the studios of Hollywood North in Vancouver Canada, this dude is of course really nothing more then a pseudo amateur television producer for an amateurish Nova Scotia Film hobbyists group who actually call themselves a Producers Association.

(2) Kal Korff - a guy who calls himself a UFO-ologist with all the answers, which of course we all know he simply creates in his own mind. Have a Bigfoot or UFO film with photos and other physical evidence? Kal will hire you to debunk all known pieces of any existing solid evidence which you have or found, but if you refuse him then be prepared for Kal himself to debunk you as once of the greatest hoaxers of the century and he will personally see to it that all your existing evidence conveniently disappears, or becomes the product of a Hollywood sci-fi movie, or better yet will illegally re-copyrighted your photos for an advertisement agency. On the brighter side, with his help you'll be known for at least something in life.
-------------------------

Now consider this.

Kal Korff gives details of how UFO contactee Billy Meier got his Pleiadian Asket photos from a woman singer (known as Tara Leigh) and photographed off the TV from the Dean Martin Show, BUT Michael Taylor who claims to be a personal associate of Kal Korff involved in an organization called "Underground Video", now claims Meier has taken the photos from a Sears Catalog. Not only can't these skeptics get their facts straight, they can't even decide on what the facts are!

Michael Taylor specifically writes;

"The photograph of an alleged Pleiadian alien was
discovered to be a photocopy of a model taken from a Sears Catalog".

http://www.theness.com/encyc/billymeier-encyc.html
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Corridor/8148/scam.html

Skeptics - Joachim Koch, Luc Buergin and Kal Korff, give a completely different statement;

"The highlight of the TV program are excerpts from the legendary Dean Martin show which in the seventies shall have served Billy as the model for his fake photos. Buergin: "Korffs team shows, that 'Asket' - an extraterrestrial allegedly photographed by Meier - is in truth the singer of an American dance formation. Obviously Billy took a photograph of the questionable scenes from the TV screen".

http://www.ufomind.com/misc/1998/may/d10-003.shtml
http://www.rense.com/ufo/billybull.htm
http://www.rense.com/ufo/expobilly.htm

When skeptics are inconsistent with each other, then you know they are frauds!

Anonymous said...

Anyone wishing to see the "expert" analysis that..infests...the Meier case, should read here:
http://www.rickross.com/reference/ufo/ufo4.html

There's youre top of the line analyst.

Michael Horn said...

Gosh, Another reference to an old trash/disinfo piece quoting twice publicly self-admitted liar Kal Korff but...strangely missing, where's the response to my answer and challenge, Deardorff's specific's, and the VERY questionable "credentials" of Paul Kimball, etc.?

For those of you who are new to this kind of stuff, it's the typical non-responsive, inept hallmark of big-egos who are absolute unqualified incompetnts with zero knowledge about the Meier case...but plenty of "opinions". And, since you've opened the Pandora's box here, be assurred that you will get plenty of exposure for all to see. Don't be surprised if this blog suddenly "disappears" when these idiots have to deliver the goods and inflated resumes aren't sufficient substitutes for competence, intelligence and...INTEGRITY.

MH

Anonymous said...

Your challenge is moot. And here's why:
Since there are NO negatives, nor original prints, nor high resolution scans of Meier's photos, your inept "challenge" is to do...what. There is NOTHING to compare them with. There is NOTHING to set the baseline.

Your "analysis" reports, are moot as well, as there is NO direct evidence to back them up.

NOT ONE SHRED.

You want to talk about ego-bloated and non-responsive? I can call you uninformed, inept, and exceedingly gullible or capitalistic..for even putting forth such a case as "proof beyond reasonable doubt", when you know obviously nothing about basic photo and film analysis. All you can do is tout your "experts" (some who's words and opinions twisted to suit your needs) and other's who have the credibility of a snake oil salesman.

Everything looks good on paper doesnt it Mikie? Lets see the hard core data. Oh, you dont have it anymore...then you are in default.

There is ONE single issue you cannot escape.

If this case was 1/8th as important as you claim, with all experts wieghing in, analysis proving beyond reasonable doubt...then why is there NO data available that can be tested.

YOU HAVE NOTHING TO TEST.

Yet repeatedly you "challenge" those to duplicate the data...data that cannot be replicated without baseline comparisons and original data available. You have reports...and thats all you have. Whats more, it's reports that have NO basis...you have no original data that they were based on.

If you honestly believe that a challenge can be issued, on such grounds, you are inept, and a laughable moron without a clue what real investigation is.

Forget the damning testimony of people who *really* worked on the Dilettoso "analysis", forget the Asket "MIB" replaced TV dancers, forget the "Ray Gun photos" that so obviously show a toy gun, forget the horribly out of focus forced perspective matchbox car and wedding cake ship shot, forget the missing shadows in nearly every Meier shot, forget the model tree that Meier used in a couple "contact" shots to give the illusion of a large craft (later "destroyed" by Pleadians...of course)....
I can go on.

Forget all that...you have NOT ONE SHRED that can be tested with equipment light years ahead of what was done all those years ago.

How apallingly convenient.

Anonymous said...

WHY DO YOU FEAR BILLY MEIER THE REAL PROPHET OF NEW AGE? Just because he is the Only and Real one???

Since the first official appearance of The True Prophet of New Age Billy Eduard Albert Meier (BEAM) in the public, in the middle 70s years, he and FIGU are pursued by watchful and invisible shadows; namely by the secret services and media of different governments, that observe the activities of ‹Billy› and insistently move their circles in Hinterschmidrüti like the vultures over the Semjase-Silver-Star-Center. The interest of the secret services in the workings of FIGU and BEAM speaks a clear language. However on the other hand and quite obviously they leave all the charlatans, UFO sectarian, contact frauds and swindlers largely unchecked because they are ‹not dangerous› for their interests. Rather, some so-called state security services use even UFO-sectarian heresies in its favor in order to create and bring with these confusion and more confusion in the public as well as to spread aimed wrong information, because it is NOT of their interest to disclose their own weaknesses and their own ignorance.


Regarding Secret Agents that put themselves present in the internet UFO forums in order to spread lies and wrong informations about ‹Billy› Eduard Albert Meier (BEAM) and the FIGU. This secret service work is NOT based on honest and factual criticism. Rather, they, by means of confusion and wrong informations, try to blur the truth and to slander ‹Billy›. They try to represent him as a implausible nutcase contact and forger of his pictures and they make the public interest be averted from him and his group and thus the Ufology is obscured with an aura of esoteric Sectarismus (by them). The venerable members the FIGU are slandered even more as crazy supporters of a self-appointed UFO-Sect as well as being autocratic sect hunters. Lately, a rumor originated in the USA have circulated that American powers would have blocked the FIGU-Website. Having the rumors news proved itself to be with short legs and also as false. However probably it is not to be dismissed that such plans absolutely are in the drawers of certain circles of the US-Administration and its secret services and would be liked to put into action.


In UFOsectarian and pseudo-UFOlogical circles, The TRUE PROPHET Billy Meier is regarded as a fraud and a swindler. However for the SECRET SERVICES and the media/news services, the proofs are however sufficiently interestingly solid about Billy Meier in order to keep himt and his FIGU friends alertly in the eye. Billy´s contacts with extraterrestrial human beings from the Plejaren Federation are very well known by the Secret Service circles. They fear the possibility that his (TRUE) information, interpretations and hints the could one day shock the political events and consequently also the structures of this planet. In the meantime government circles definitively fear the political influence of The True Prophet of the New Age Billy Meier, although he would not actively act politically in any way or ever will act. The fact is: It became known through the Plejarens contact people and also from well informed people of different earthly countries and it is explained over and over again, that the FIGU-Bulletins are being translated in European as well as in USA-political circles into the English language as well as into other languages and being read with interest, thoroughfully studied and ARE archived.

Secretly - and news services occasionally are the bad henchmen of doubtful politics. According to the interests of their clients, they stir up intrigues, murder, chaos or rebellion, to steer around political streams. They represent and defend the interests of secret circles from the economy and the politics and are not at the service of people. For the attaining their goals, innumerable people are killed world-wide, are cleared up from their or brought into silence.

However, only those people, that more or less are searching for an answer to the questions of the sense of the life, ultimately are also the ones executing the secret services. Without suspecting it, they themselves can observe one of the most interesting organizations of this Earth even if their related intents necessarily are not the best and are opposite to FIGU. Therefore, also the secret services are honestly loaded as ‹ wandering friends › into the Center, in the open, and, to bring up their concerns in unconcealed. Actually, their questions LIKE, WHY, FROM WHERE and WHERE can quite easy and simply be put to the Semjase-Silver-Star-Center form them to get the answers in honestly.

Rather, the secret services can learn something about the living together of the people in the Center, about the Lessons of the Spirit (Geisteslehre), the love and harmony, about good interpersonal relationships and the true freedom of the human being as well as about peace on this planet, in the family and among the human being broadly. As well as they can learn and know about the nonsense of the cult religions and ultimately also something about the sense and purpose of life. The FIGU has nothing to hide and carries out its ‹Silent Revolution of the Truth› into the world.


Maybe the secret observers, in the course of the years, are older observers and more familiar with the FIGU and have become more brightly haired. Possibly some of them learned something from their realizations about the FIGU and widened their own philosophy through it. Maybe one or the other have certain sympathies for the teachings of Truth of BEAM in the meantime. Maybe some of them left feathers in vehement discussions or admire the untiring endurance and creativity of ‹Billy› and the members of FIGU secretly. And it is a fact that also people consider themselves one of the FIGU today and earlier were BEAMs enemy as well as military, official or were - or it still is.



All texts above from SONDER Figu Bulletin Nr. 20

The wordings are not mine but are from Hans-Georg Lanzendorfer, Schweiz

Translated by BE from german language and "put" together by a Billy Meier´s Friend in Truth.



"Saalome gam naan ben uurda, gan njjber asaala hesporoona!"

Signed

B.E.

Truth Shall Prevail!!!

PS: YOU BLIND AND MISGUIDED ONES WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND WHO IS BILLY MEIER IF YOU DO NOT HAVE INTELLIGENCE TO SEARCH BY YOURSELVES!

Michael Horn said...

Our predictable skeptical friend makes claims against the evidence in the Meier case that he doesn't, and can't, substantiate. This automatically shows that he's an unscientific amateur and is probably put up to this either by Kimball (whose own "credentials" to comment on the case appear to be non-existent) or by some other parties with a vested interest in keeping people locked into their stupidity and prejudice.

He ignores the offer of the sound recordings, i.e. specific, still available physical evidence for testing, he ignores the findings of a scientist, James Deardorff, who has proved the authenticity of the Meier photos and he attempts to discredit testing and evaluations by accreditied scientsits and facilities using state of the art equipment.

He posits a very strange idea, that if he doesn't have access to something - as he won't to the majority of historical evidence of events that have occurred on (and off) the earth for thousands and thousands of years - well, it just didn't happen and isn't valid. Bozo, that's just not the way things work. Logical thinking tells us that this will nullify the authenticity and accuracy of everything that preceded us each time a new era or generation of technology appears or if evidence that has been tested is no longer available.

But fortunately for thinking people, Deardorff's work settles the matter, as, of course, did the original testing. But the person attempting to throw the matter off course, as these pathetically intellectually bankrupt types always do when they can't belly up to the bar, has no standing or credibility. He can't hold a candle to Deardorff, Stevens, Dilettoso, Froning, Gentleman, Post, Malin (the Mars Mission, for gosh sakes!), USGS, Vogel, Ambrose, Groton Naval Undersea Labs, Rognerud, Nippon TV, etc. So, in the tradition of failures and wannabes, he'll try to tear down that which will long outlive him, and be long remebered when his flatulent existence has dissipated from this plane.

He can't debunk copyrighted books and texts published before the specific events occurred. He can't debunk 120+ eye witnesses, witnesses who took and passed lie detector tests, five other photographers, etc. He can't and he knows it, which is what is boiling the poor fellow's blood and pushing him to try to figure out how to sabotage something far, far greater than anything he can do, be or contribute to our world.

What he can do is attempt to pass on discreditied hearsay and the ranting of publicly self-confessed liars, what he can do is give us more text book examples of the actual non-responsiveness of these bottom feeders who would attack a man and a case that they, demonstrably, know absolutely nothing about...all in defense of some hack TV guy with what turns out to be questionable credentials and absolutely zero qualifications for determining the credibility of anything, let alone what would qualify as the most important story in all of human history.

Again, the type of guy you just love to have debating you while you watch him wet himself when he has to address the volumes of information in the case that he, again, knows less than nothing about.

With blowhards like this it's no wonder Meier only needed one arm.

MH

Anonymous said...

One need only look at the "evidence" for himself to evaluate this "case".

I posted a link to a very credible news story that flat out puts the "top man" of the photo and film analysis in the light for all to see.

It is my opinion that every picture taken by Meier was a suspended model, or thrown model. There would be NO identifyable edges such as paste up, and there would be little to no evidence of filament line holding up the "craft", let us not forget Meier's camera was "broken" with a focus set a near infinity (if we are to believe the current info).

It's to be noted that every point I have brought up in conflict view of this case, has been ignored by Horn. He will not comment, because he cant. He is not a scientist, nor an analyist, he only quotes some, some who in my opinion who's words were twisted to suit his agenda.
Our poor deluded friend refuses to acknowledge the obvious arrows that point to an opposite view of his own. As much as he believes his favorite pastime and source of income, there is a body of evidence larger that points to the contrary of his belief.
Why does he continue to put forth such assinine answers as:

"He posits a very strange idea, that if he doesn't have access to something - as he won't to the majority of historical evidence of events that have occurred on (and off) the earth for thousands and thousands of years - well, it just didn't happen and isn't valid."

There are dinosaur bones, there are visible artifacts and signs of a "big bang", there are historical documents such as the Consititution of the United States signed, and varifibly so. The fact is, the Meier case has none. His extraordinary claims demand the same kind of evidence.

"Giant lizards walked the earth millions of years ago"

And there's physical evidence to prove it.

Meier claims to have photographed them. (dinosaurs)

A fuzzy picture, a story, and no negatives nor original prints. To boot, he "traveled back in time" to take them.

More often then not, when someone is backed into a corner and losing ground, that person will attack with personal comments, immature name calling (which I'll gladly recipricate..I'm not too stuffy for schoolboy fun) and NEVER ever comment on your points; but rather keep saying what a moron you are, how youre inept about the case, and spew more "information" and name dropping.

Thats really the bottom line. You need to be able to cut through the bullsh**t. Horn would have you bogged down in so much analysis jargon that the average person has no idea whats going on, only that "hey it sounds like they know what theyre talking about".

And that my friends, is what they count on.

Cut through the crap. Who put forth what data, from what source and to what end. Was there monetary issues involved? Were the researchers paid or given vested interest in publicity and possibly capital gains? What is the character of these people like? The quality of the messenger is highly important. What do we really know about the core "researchers" on this case?

It doesnt matter to Horn. If you go left, he'll go right. It's nothing but a sparring match. Youre attacking one of two things, his belief system, or his financial state...and I'd venture any of us would aggressively defend either, in his shoes.

Cutting through the crap, Meier's claim to fame is his pictures and film. In some shots, it's VERY clear a small model close to the camera was used, and it's a simple optics answer and concretely provable. Why is it these "scientists" couldnt see that? Thats the real mystery isnt it?
I dont think there's words in the english language to describe how little I care what Deardorff and Dilettoso say about the photos. I have over 25 years experience in digital and film imaging, but it doesnt matter....*anyone* can see the optical faults. It's obvious and it's telling. Horn would have you believe that because someone has PhD after their name, your statements are garbage. In some cases, that'd be true, but in something so obvious as stop motion filming or an obvious model shot with a matchbox car, that any college-age film student could see, it isnt.

Cut it to the bone, and look at it without their "scientific" analysis.

It's my opinion Horn is without question one of the most venomous zealots ever to come to the UFO community. If he'd put his spin talents to work elsewhere, he'd be a massive success at whatever it was.

But I'll take my Grandmother's advice at this stage in my life, "Never argue with a fool."




But

Anonymous said...

BTW Mikie, Deardorff's credentials are that he has several degrees in Meteorology and physics...NOT imaging, manipulation, graphics, etc.
Altho I truly respect Deardorff's achievements,and they are not to be discarded by any means...he is not a imaging expert and cannot truly evaluate the Meier photos professionally (by your standards) and in my opinion certainly not objectively.

Anonymous said...

"Who will not comprehend the truth with his understanding, but only with his belief, can not harvest the fruit from it."


A complete IDIOT who thinks he is a “wise” person wrote this about Michael Horn one can read above here on this Blog:

“…It's my opinion Horn is without question one of the most venomous zealots ever to come to the UFO community. If he'd put his spin talents to work elsewhere, he'd be a massive success at whatever it was.

But I'll take my Grandmother's advice at this stage in my life, "Never argue with a fool."”

Another one.. a complete pseudo wise one and also another know-it-all wrote this: in his own words about Billy Meier:

6. Billy Meier – An anecdotal story – my brother and I were attending a UFO conference where a Meier supporter was speaking. He showed some photos and film footage “taken” by Meier of alleged UFOs. My brother leaned over to me and said, “Is there anybody here who can’t tell those are fakes?” To which I replied, “Yeah, go figure. What really ticks me off, as a filmmaker, is how bad the fakes are. I mean, really – I’m offended….Billy Meier IS the direct inheritor of the legacy of George Adamski – and just as damaging to the overall reputation of ufology.”

So the smart ass Paul Kimball was offended by Truth then??? Offended IS my INTELLIGENCE to read such an IDIOTIC claim by this same pathetic moron who tries to compare Billy to the most imbecile charlatan that ever existed on this Earth and whose name is George Adamski! And Offended must be the High Intelligence of wisemen like Mike Horn and Dr. Jim Deardorff to read such a pathetic claim by this know-it-all. And look! this person is highly educated including the University Medal in History at both Acadia University and the University of Dundee. Very impressive indeed but this guy should study a little bit more…

…Real experts actually read the photo analysis and comment on the specifics, parameters of testing, etc. And then read everything else to see if the case is...real. … How do you successfully hoax information, in scientific areas outside of your expertise (as a farmer), that will be corroborated in the future by reputable sources? Will the argument now become: "We don't know how he did it but it's unfair, and highly irresponsible, to make your critics look stupid in the process."? … There is something called plausible deniability built into the Meier case, in the opinion of many people. Please visit the webpage of James Deardorff www.tjresearch.info/ (linked from www.theyfly.com). His work, which also includes further photo analysis, sheds a lot of light on the kind of thinking that the ETs have apparently employed in dealing with us and our tendencies to too rapidly accept "proof", not think for ourselves, etc. – Michael Horn

You guys are right when you say:

"Never argue with a fool." And what I see and witness here is only a bunch of fools trying to block the truth with pseudo knowledge regarding the Truth about Real Ufology and about Billy Meier.

Yes it is true. Micheal Horn and Dr. Jim Deardorff or any other person who is aware of Billy Meier´s Case and what it does represent in Truth cannot argue with a bunch of retards like you pseudo wise man and know-it-alls users of this Paul Kimball´s Blog, namely the so called Ufologists a ridiculous and pathetic buch of idiots that in Truth are only pseudo wise men, they think they know a lot but they do not know nothing because their IQs are the same as the IQ of an Oyster. Because who are you to argue against the Truth?

You do not have enough Intelligence to argue with so honorable persons like Mike Horn and Dr.Jim Deardorff. You do not have argument against The Truth!!!

Many years of experience with all types of people have shown that those who try to discriminate against Billy and question everything are obviously envious, pseudo-scientists, sectarians, fanatics, schizophrenics, or simply slanderers. In particular, they seem to be people who, because of some strange opinions concerning the rest of the world, politics, or religions, cannot bear the truth that may differ from their own beliefs. They are willing to suppress the truth with the aid of mean, dishonest methods, and to extinguish it, if possible, even if it means going over dead bodies, tarnishing and destroying the reputation of another human being.

The circles of today’s so-called ufologists and contact persons consist mostly of people who do not wish to concern themselves with Ufology and truth on a responsible level. Instead, many pursue a bogus study of Ufology, bragging and lying about phony contacts, because they want to feed and satisfy their lust for sensationalism, their sectarianism, petty jealousies, know-it-all attitudes and pompousness, their inferiority complexes, and often enough their ego trips. In addition to these others are the alleged „blessed ones“; the god/saint/Jesus delegates; apostles; god and angel messengers; „chosen few“; channelers, and others with supposed extrasensory talents; enlightened ones; seers, revelators, and healers by their own grace, etc. These people are part of the world’s population who manage to charm, exploit, and lie to the gullible and easily-swayed individuals all over the Earth. Truthfully, 99.979% of all of the allegations by these charlatans are based on deliberate fraud, lies, and deceit, including those purportedly contacted by UFOs, ETs, by those on the „other“ side, and from other dimensions. These fabrications may also originate from chronic or sporadic schizophrenia or similar mental illnesses. Indeed, of 1 million claims concerning contacts, enlightenment, being the chosen ones, transmission of messages, and so forth, only 203 are communications of truth and reality, while 999,797 of 1 million claims are deceptions and lies of some sort or another.

Furthermore, they envy Billy Meier´s UFO photographs of beamships (verified to be the best in the world - www.theyfly.com ), films, slides, metal and crystal samples, etc., and call them fakes. This is consistently the case with pseudo-scientists, dishonest critics, and all those who do not want to accept the truth, for sectarian, religious, political, pseudo-scientific, or other reasons.

Much has been written about Eduard Albert Meier, who is called Billy, and much of it has been far from being flattering or objective. It seems that every human has his own subjective concept of what, or rather who, Billy Meier is. The fewest know him personally, and when they do they know him not good enough to form an unbiased opinion about him.

Most people connect him with UFOs, what is most likely, since his UFO photos are known all-over the world. However, this UFO thing is pushed into the background more and more, and his main occupation comes forth ever distinctly: He is a penman, a writer who has already written thousands of pages, indeed not just novels--although he has written some--but writings whose content stimulates thinking and gives each person the initiative to ask ever more questions and, through this, to grasp ever more answers. He is the author of umpteen books that are written in a wonderful and understandable language. His (book) lines lead into worlds of which we have not dreamed yet. He gives nourishment to our dreams and lets our fantasy turn head over heals by touching strings within ourselves and letting them vibrate, something we possibly would have never discovered.

Billy is the author of many readable and interesting books. Why do most people not realize this? They define Billy through his UFO photos only, whether these are genuine or not. Simply a waste of time. They do not realize or know that Billy's task and main occupation is to write and teach. He does this so masterly and with a fluency that every sentence fits and is correct in its meaning. And all of this is achieved in one go, without additional correcting of sentences or content. That will not be imitated too easily by the so-called authors, who polish and potter around their books for years, until, ultimately, they publish it. All the while Billy--as a rule--writes a book in a few weeks or in two or three months, that is with a worthy content.

See here you blindfolded know-it-alls for instance read below an example of these really wise words by Mr Michael Horn´s himself:

“The professional skeptics of the Meier case have concocted all sorts of fanciful notions and theories as to how he hoaxed the evidence. But when challenged to prove their claims they repeatedly replied that it was not their job to attempt to duplicate the evidence, although conducting themselves according to the scientific method would require it. (words by Mike Horn) …. “

I myself B.E. would like see you very wise and smart asses to be able to reproduce hundreds of photos, and sounds samples while being able-bodied men with both sound arms… See? Billy Meier has only one arm! Now proof yourselves to be real wise you pseudo ufologists and tell me HOW will you know-it-alls use only one hand, only one arm, since Billy Meier is a one-armed man himself in order to reproduce the same PROOFS that Billy has in Truth?

And as Dr. Jim Deardorff observes himself at http://www.tjresearch.info/

“In comparing the Meier case against any or all of the rest of ufology's cases, one finds that it is entirely unique. The amount and quality of the UFO evidence he was allowed to gather—photographic, UFO sounds on tape and unearthly metal samples, exceeds anything that occurred before or since, as of this writing update in 2004. However, this was upsetting to most ufologists who valued their reputations as leaders in their field. They went along with those who pronounced the Meier contactee case to be a hoax despite all the evidence to the contrary, largely because they assumed all contactee cases to be non-genuine, and also because the quality and quantity of "beamship" photographic evidence Meier was allowed to acquire, seemed to be too good to be true. So they assumed the case to be a hoax by assuming all investigators of this case who concluded otherwise to be incompetent, without arriving at valid explanations of how any or all of it could have been hoaxed. By taking this stance they could bolster their own reputations as hard-nosed ufologists who were doing their best to attract mainstream scientists into treating their field seriously.

Anyone who studies the Meier case will need to investigate the UFO phenomenon as a whole to see how this case fits in with it. In comparing the Meier case against any or all of the rest of ufology's cases, one finds that it is entirely unique. “

SNIP
Dr. Michael Malin: Principal investigator for the Mars Orbiter Cameron NASA's Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft at Malin Space Science Systems (MSSS), San Diego, CA. Analyzed Meier’s photographs in 1981: "Ifind the photographs themselves credible, they're good photographs.They appear to represent a real phenomenon. The story that some farmerin Switzerland is on a first name basis with dozens of aliens who cometo visit him ... I find that incredible. But I find the photographsmore credible. They're reasonable evidence of something. What thatsomething is I don't know." Malin also said, "If the photographs arehoaxes then I am intrigued by the quality of the hoax. How did he doit? I'm always interested in seeing a master at work." And Robert Post shouldn't be marginalized: Robert Post: JPL photo laboratory for 22 years, was the head of that lab in 1979, and oversaw the developing and printing of every photograph that came out of JPL at the time: "From a photography stand point, you couldn't see anything that was fake about the Meierphotos. That's what struck me. They looked like legitimate photographs. I thought, 'God, if this is real, this is going to be really something.” SNIP



“For the uninformed, professional skeptics are usually non-objective, uncredentialed, unscientific people who approach matters not in the spirit of discovery but from the perspective of categorically ruling out anything as real that does not fit their preconceived beliefs. They are not used to having their illegitimate authority challenged, as is the same with most cultic, religious hierarchies, and attract to their ranks all shades of true believers who likewise aspire to keep their limited worldview safe, at any cost, from encroachment by unfamiliar realities. Quite often this cost is incurred by others, as the professional skeptics freely assail the character and motivation of anyone who offers credible evidence that contradicts their preconceptions. While one may have compassion for their personal insecurity and terror of the unknown, it in no way justifies the slanderous and blatant attacks on those whose evidence meets legal and scientific standards of proof, as Meier’s does. …

Sinking Their Own Ship

For some time, professional skeptics such as James Randi, Michael Shermer,Dr. Steven, Novella Karl Korff and members of CFI-West, i.e. Vaughn Rees,James Underdown and Derek Bartholomaus, have been conducting a smear campaign by loudly asserting, without providing any substantiation whatsoever, that Meier’s photographic evidence, and therefore the case itself, was hoaxed and fraudulent. (We won’t discuss the abundant,prophetically accurate information published by Meier since the skeptics have, as one could “predict”, vigorously avoided dealing with it at all.) They’ve used stunningly brilliant but unsupported arguments, such asclaiming that young children could make the same quality UFO photos, that the photos are hoaxed simply because the skeptic says they’re hoaxed and that, since a UFO appears “as if” suspended by a string that it is, therefore, actually suspended by a string. (words by MIKE HORN at www.theyfly.com ) “



“The Meier Contacts meet all standards for a preponderance of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. All challenges by scientists and skeptics, to duplicate or debunk the physical and prophetic evidence, have been soundly defeated. The Meier Contacts are, therefore, the most important story in all of human history. ….But be forewarned, the information, like truth itself, is often harsh, with no regard for political thinking or religious beliefs. And it is this eternal truth, not our likes, dislikes or beliefs, that is at the core of the Meier Contacts.”

And also by Michael Horn himself:

“I often find myself engaged in debate with people in online forums who are skeptical about the Meier case and/or downright hostile to it. I usually start out by presenting certain facts and pointing them to where they can do their own serious research in order to determine for themselves the authenticity of the case and not rely on hearsay and debunkers, who themselves have already been sufficiently debunked and shown to be prejudiced, incompetent and plain wrong.

It often happens that the people online that I’m engaging are not responsive to the actual material that I present or point them to and I find myself being critical of them, often harshly (and thusly often ineffectively, as far as encouraging reasoning is concerned). I usually find myself frustrated that they won’t think things through and I become emphatic about their lack of thinking. In looking over some of these exchanges I realize that, while I’m criticizing them for not thinking, I haven’t explained anything about the kind of thinking that I mean. …..Let’s think about the Meier case as a large puzzle with all of the pieces spread out on a table in front of us. Just like any other puzzle, we have to try to put all of the pieces together so that they fit and create a complete picture. The unique problem here may be that we don’t have a picture of what the finished puzzle is supposed to look like, just a bunch of differing opinions of it. The first pieces that we want to look at to see if they fit together have to do with the half-dozen categories (photos, films, video, sound recordings, metal alloy samples and new hand and fingerprints) of still irreproducible physical evidence (since no one still has been able to reproduce and/or debunk them by showing how/that they were hoaxed). In looking at them we have to note the actual total abundance of this evidence and its quality. In thinking about it objectively, we become aware of the consistent high quality of each individual piece of this evidence, which can pose the minor problem of taking it for granted because there’s no inferior quality of evidence, within this body, to compare it to. http://www.theyfly.com/ ”

“The Billy Meier UFO case and the controversy that has swirled around has been well known for more than two decades. The case is at least as famous for all the efforts to debunk it as for the amazing photographs that have been the primary target of such attacks. If all that made the Meier case unique were the photos, let alone the film footage, metal samples and sound recordings, the case could remain fodder for those invested, for whatever reasons, in feeding off the controversy.
However, another less well known aspect to the case which in and of itself is quite remarkable, when combined with the totality of the other evidence, makes the case absolutely unique and worthy of serious consideration. Information was given to Meier by his alleged Pleiadian visitors, and published by him over 20 years ago, which has proven to be true and accurate by independent scientific sources with the highest levels of credibility. Such proof is all the more compelling since there is no evidence whatsoever that any of those scientific sources had any knowledge of Meier's information, or that their work would validate the contents thereof. Michael Horn www.figu.org/ us/ figu/ supporter/ michael_horn/ horn1.htm ”
“Absence of Erroneous Prophetic Information
If, as some people might think, Meier somehow guessed or fabricated all of this specific, prophetically accurate information, it would be logical to assume that there would have to be an even more enormous body of randomly generated erroneous information.
Unfortunately for the sceptics, there simply is no such voluminous body of inaccurate work. And it's easy to prove this, since most of the information validated so far has been culled from a couple of thousand pages of the earliest English translations of the Contact Reports, published by Meier primarily between 1975 and 1979, with additional information excerpted from contacts in the 1980s and 1990s. Let me also add that there are still thousands of pages of untranslated German texts and some unofficial English translations that contain additional, already published, prophetic information awaiting scrutiny. http://www.theyfly.com/”
Michael's background is quite eclectic; he is an award-winning painter, trend-setting designer and creator of the still popular fashion fad "Fingernail Art", which he debuted in Harper's Bazaar in July of 1967. His paintings are in collections in Los Angeles, Chicago, London, India and Greece. He designed and painted the sets for the play "Hardware" at the Stella Adler Theater in Hollywood. Michael is also a published songwriter, singer, music and video producer, humorist, science researcher, writer and lecturer.

Michael Horn is the authorized American media representative for the Billy Meier Contacts and has researched the case for over 25 years. He is a lecturer, writer and frequent guest on radio and TV. See the detail?? For over 25 years he has researched DEEPLY Billy Meier´s Case therefore he (Mike Horn) knows a lot better than you know-it-alls. Michael Horn is one of those rare people who is what he teaches...

The real point is that either the Meier case is true or it isn't. If true, it's not only the most important story in history but a, so-far, unheeded warning of the kind of destruction coming to us and others in accordance with the immutable laws of cause and effect. – Michael Horn.


Can you see now how Wise words can be used with inteligence without being falsified?

Truth is Truth you know-it-alls! And Billy´s Truth cannot be falsified or denied by you stupid and blind ones pseudo ufologists, critics, and debiloids.

Anonymous said...

Honorable people do not call people idiots, morons, bozo, etc, etc, at the first onset of debate. This is what
someone acts like when they are caught in something. Horn has called everyone, everything possible without profanity
and has done so in front of everyone, for everyone to see. This is a man who alledgedly follows teachings
of peace and love thoughout mankind.

Not surprisingly, a couple members of his Pleadian message board on yahoo are taking him to task about his
horrid attitude. But one member penned the statement about those here (or anywhere presumably) with views
that differ from those of the Pleadian supporters:
quote:

"Honestly I myself am fed up with all the crap these people keep pushin on us and
I know that for the world to change these people must parish in the cleansing of
the world."

unquote.

I am so utterly disgusted at such an outraegous statement I cannot put it into words. For a person to wish
death upon another for a dissenting view is absolutely ludicrous...but in my opinion solidifies the mindset
of some of these people. It's in my opinion, fanatical and scary.

People such as this will not listen to reason nor any dissenting view, but thump their "official" reports
till they're blue in the face.

Plenty has been brought up here with no answers, just more name calling, and abuse from Meier-ites.
But it's gavitated to such a state that I personally find it sick and demented, and I will no longer
participate.

Good Luck to you Paul.

Anonymous said...

About Edward Albert Meier - Billy Meier - True Prophet of New Age.

I propose a riddle to all then...

Use knowledge, use Logic (think).

Make haste. Document information twice!!! Learn German language to understand the Truth.

Look and understand carefully to the words of Truth here below.

The time is upon us all. Get True Creational Knowledge and Wisdom to understand it.

Words from the Book OM (Billy Meier)

OM 995. Es wird aber kommen der Tag, an dem die Ungerechten vor dem Throne der Gerechtigkeit stehen, wo Auswahl gehalten wird unter den Menschen, je nach Taten und Stätten und Zahl.

OM 995. However, there will come the day when the Wrongful ones WILL stand in front of the Throne of Justice, (and) where the selection among the humankind will be according to (its) actions and places and number will happen.


OM 1022. In diesen Tagen werden die heiligen Wächter der unsichtbaren Himmel vereinet mit einer Stimme beten und preisen und rühmen und danken den Namen der Schöpfung, dass das Beten der Gerechten nicht vergeblich sein werde und ihnen Gerechtigkeit widerfahre."


OM 1040. Am Tage ihrer Angst und Not aber werden sie keinen Trost finden und keine Errettung.


OM 1043. Und sie werden untersinken vor dem Angesichte der Gerechten und vor dem Angesichte der Heiligen und Weisen, und keine Spur wird mehr von ihnen zu finden sein.

OM 1044. Und nach dem Tage ihrer Not wird Frieden und Liebe und Wahrheit und Weisheit werden auf Erden.

OM 1068. Und in jenen Tagen wird stattfinden eine Wendung für die Gerechten.

OM 1090. Es werden sinnlos ausrauben die Menschen alle Schätze ihrer Erde, so die Erze vom Kupfer und Eisen und Blei, die Erze vom Silber und Gold und vom Tropfmetall, das wie flüssiges Silber ist, also aber rauben sie auch aus die Meere des Oels, die in der Erde sind und also alles edle Gestein und auch das Gestein des Lebens.

OM 1091. Und sie werden Kriegswerkzeug machen daraus und allerhand Gut und Böse, und also werden sie damit vernichten die grössten Teile allen Lebens. <<---Can see here what is waiting for you humankind???

OM 1092. Durch Menschenhand erzeugen sie Todessonnen aus den Erzen und aus den Gesteinen des Lebens, und das Oel der Erde wandeln sie zur Lebenskraft für metallene Ungeheuer, di e sich zu Lande und zu Wasser und inder Luft fortbewegen. <<---yes yes do you know what a Todessonnen is???

coincidence here...from another person from Middle Ages who also had the insight...
Diese mächtigen Tyrannen werden scheitern, Scheitern zu spalten die Welt entzwei.
Doch von ihrer ausgeheckten Brut
Kommt ein Fieber — lassen viele tot.

Translation
These mighty tyrants will fail to do They fail to split the world in two.
But from their acts a danger bred
An ague — leaving many dead.


OM 1093. Und es entstehet aus dieser gefahrvollen Lebenskraft eine neue Luft, die viele Tode in sich berget und das Leben tötet, das da ist der Menschen, des Getieres und der Pflanzen. <<-- See this? This is what happens when you destroy Nature with you greed you powerhungry ones!!!

OM 1074. Und in jenen Tagen werden die Berge springen wie Widder, und die Hügel hüpfen wie Lämmer, die mit Milch gesättiget sind.


coincidence here...from another person from Middle Ages who also had the insight...

Noch größeres Zeichen ist dort zu sehn,Wenn Mensch das späte Jahrhundert naht.
Drei schlafende Berge holen Luft und Speien Schlamm und Eis und Tod aus.
Und Erdbeben schlucken Stadt und Stadt, In Ländern, die mir noch unbekannt.

Yet greater sign there be to see
As man nears latter century.
Three sleeping mountains gather breath
And spew out mud, and ice and death.
And earthquakes swallow town and town,In lands as yet to me unknown.


OM 1015. Und Schamröte wird die Gewaltigen erfüllen, als auch alle anderen Unge¬rechten unter den Menschenkindern der Erde, denn seine Lehre der Wahr¬heit wird gewaltig sein, so sie ihretwegen verstossen werden. <<--Shame on you deceivers of humankind...


OM 1015. And shame redness will fill the Powerful ones and all other unrighteous ones among the people children of the earth, because the Teachings Lessons of the truth will be enormous, then they will be offended.

The time is upon us all. Get True Creational Knowledge and Wisdom to understand.

TJ 15:41. "These are the meanings of the parables, whose secrets must be deciphered by the people, in order that they learn to think and develop insights.

Knowledge and wisdom are the gateway.

OM 1075. Denn die Erde wird erbeben rundum, und Feuer wird aus ihr brechen. <<-- See here???

OM 1094. Es wird aber geschehen in jenen Tagen, dass man sich nicht retten wird, weder mit Gold noch mit Silber, weder mit Blei, Eisen oder Kupfer, und also nicht mit edlem Gestein oder mit Gestein des Lebens, und so auch nicht mit dem Oele der Erde. <<-- see? who will help you when your time has finnaly come?

OM 1095. Man wird sich nicht retten und nicht entfliehen können. <<-- See here??? Understood?


Und Wissenschaftler finden keine Arznei.
Deswegen ist es noch schlimmer als Aussatz.
O viele Zeichen für die Sehenwollenden
Die Wahrheit dieser wirklichen Prophezeiung.

And physics find no remedy
For this is worse than leprosy.
Oh many signs for all to see
The truth of this true prophecy.

OM 1096. Und alsbald wird es kein Eisen mehr geben für den Krieg noch für das Kleid eines Panzers.

OM 1078. Und die Erde wird sich erfreuen, denn es werden danach in kommender Zeit nur noch Gerechte wohnen und wandeln auf Erden.

OM 1097. Also aber wird es auch nicht mehr geben Kupfer und Silber und Gold, und also nicht edles Gestein und Gestein des Lebens, derog1eichen aber auch nicht das Oe1 der Erde, Tropfmetall und vieles an anderen Schätzen der Erde.

OM 1098. Erz wird nichts nützen, und Zinn wird nichts nützen und nicht angeschlagen werden, und Blei wird nicht begehret werden.

OM 1099. Alle diese Dinge werden verschwinden und vernichtet werden von der Oberfläche der Erde, wenn der Weise mit dem Haupte der Tage in der neu¬en Zeit erscheinet mit dem gleichen An1itz, das er ehedem often getragen hat in Erfüllung seiner schöpferischen Pflicht.

Yes Billy Meier is the only one who tells the Truth...

But you know-it-alls cannot understand it...


Compiled by "Eagle´s Eyes"

Paul Kimball said...

Somehow I missed this one months ago:

"1) Paul Kimball - says he's a UFO-ologist with scholarships which of course has nothing to do with the science of UFOs, at least Canadian Stanton Freeman was a nuclear physicist with something really intelligent to say regarding such UFO possibilities, but someone like Paul Kimball is more like a self proclaimed Television producer who probably doesn't even know the beginnings of what computer CGI special effects are all about, never mind claiming to know the first thing about forensic photo analysis. Keep in mind here's a guy of course who will sell out Canada to the Americans without a second thought and according to a number of movie producers from the studios of Hollywood North in Vancouver Canada, this dude is of course really nothing more then a pseudo amateur television producer for an amateurish Nova Scotia Film hobbyists group who actually call themselves a Producers Association."

Hahahahaha... Now that's funny.

Any chance you would care to name these Vancouver producers you supposedly know?

I thought not.

Hahahahahaha... Hilarious.

Paul Kimball